American Horror Story-TV Series

[mundays]

Oct 14, 2011 1:44:53 GMT -5 bigmac said:

Oct 12, 2011 22:31:17 GMT -5 Peekysdad said:

You have to grab the audience within the first episode (or page, in a novel) or else people will move on. Unlike Dexter, which grabbed you by the throat in the opening moments, that didn't happen here.

Dexter and The Shield. For my money the best two opening episodes ever. And although I don't remember it myself I know in tv circles the pilot of the X Files is heralded as close to perfect.

Bollocks to story telling 101 though. No offence. I've far more time for people who hang convention and by-the-numbers script writing.

[Peekysdad]

Oct 14, 2011 1:44:53 GMT -5 bigmac said:

Oct 12, 2011 22:31:17 GMT -5 Peekysdad said:

I've now seen the first two episodes and I agree that it's not the most original horror I've watched. However, I'm really enjoying it! This is TV, after all. It doesn't cost me anything and it's extremely watchable.

Do we really have to expect the creators of a series to know exactly where it's going from the start?
Did the writers of Dexter know

SPOILER: Click to show

that Trinity was going to kill Rita as soon as she was introduced?

Maybe they did, but it certainly isn't a prerequisite for a good series.

I think I'm not going to worry about where this is going and just enjoy the ride.

I think you're mention of the Dexter spoiler is rather off.

That moment spun the series in a new direction. I agree, it wasn't plotted out in the early seasons (IMO), but it was an interesting creative decision.

Now, I'm not saying this was the case, but at times such decisions can be based on what the actor is interested in (or salary demands, and it's not like we don't know that hasn't happened), but it could also be a chance to expand upon the central character.

With AHS, we only have two episodes to judge whether we invest our time in the series or not. I've only seen the first episode, and I have to say, it's nowhere NEAR as gripping as the first episode of Dexter.

We can argue premium channel verse regular cable all you want, but the fact is, I just don't care about the storyline or the characters. The writers on AHS failed basic story writing 101; grab the audience with the first paragraph. It's the basic standard of every short story, every novel, every tale told around a fire. If you don't gain interest in the first page or so, you're screwed.

AHS's first chapter was rather bland, if you discount all the forced attempts to shock the audience. Not that they didn't drop some interesting tidbits at the very end, which is what is making me watch the show for the next couple episodes. But I don't feel the writers have anything interesting to say, other than rehash standard haunted house props and include references to better movies.

You have to grab the audience within the first episode (or page, in a novel) or else people will move on. Unlike Dexter, which grabbed you by the throat in the opening moments, that didn't happen here.

Whoa! Stop right there! I wasn't favorably comparing American Horror Story to Dexter at all! I'm a huge Dexter fan. All I was saying was that I found AHS to be an entertaining hour of TV and using Dexter as a random example of a show that was probably not completely outlined at season one, episode one. Dexter is Dom Perignon and American Horror Story is Mountain Dew.

[Stuart]

Caught the pilot last night. Clunky and predictable in places but it wasn’t dull. I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve seen a few more eps. I hope they can take it somewhere worthwhile and it doesn't just descend into "a soap opera with a twist".

[bigmac]

Oct 14, 2011 23:28:19 GMT -5 Peekysdad said:

Whoa! Stop right there! I wasn't favorably comparing American Horror Story to Dexter at all! I'm a huge Dexter fan. All I was saying was that I found AHS to be an entertaining hour of TV and using Dexter as a random example of a show that was probably not completely outlined at season one, episode one. Dexter is Dom Perignon and American Horror Story is Mountain Dew.

I know you weren't comparing the two. I was just using your mention of Dexter to explain why i wasn't captivated by AHS. Perhaps I was a bit off as well, as not many shows can match the opener of Dexter.

Oct 14, 2011 5:39:17 GMT -5 mundays said:

Bollocks to story telling 101 though. No offence. I've far more time for people who hang convention and by-the-numbers script writing.

It's not convention or by the numbers writing, but it's the truth. If you don't interest your audience within the first few pages/premiere, you might not keep them.

I'm not saying it has to be something as intense as Dexter (again, might be my fault for using such an extreme example), but something has to draw them in and make them want to spend their time reading/watching a writer's work.

For example, late in AHS, when Jessica Lange's character is talking to the maid, that discussion caught my interest and made me want to see where things would go from there. A late save, to be sure, and one that made me worry it was more a throw-away line than anything the writers will build upon, but without that moment, I wouldn't be interested in watching any further.

Which will be a bit difficult at this point. It appears Fox only gave Hulu the right to broadcast the pilot episode. It's the same hook that Crackle does with Dexter, or AMC did with The Walking Dead. Give people the first episode for free, and we'll have them switching on to see the rest.

Unfortunately, I don't have cable and AHS hasn't changed my mind about that. ;D Looks like I'll have to wait until the first season hits DVD to finish up the series, as I'm not dropping $2 on iTunes to download it.

Oh crap, work just called, someone's sick and I have to get there now. See you all later! (and maybe I'll be editing this, as I don't have time to do that now. Hope my spelling was okay!)

[mundays]

Oct 15, 2011 14:13:54 GMT -5 bigmac said:

It's not convention or by the numbers writing

Ooh it is you know? Sadly I do this for a living. You try getting a script past an editor that doesn't have a hook landing exactly on the tenth page.

[bigmac]

Oct 15, 2011 14:33:10 GMT -5 mundays said:

Oct 15, 2011 14:13:54 GMT -5 bigmac said:

It's not convention or by the numbers writing

Ooh it is you know? Sadly I do this for a living. You try getting a script past an editor that doesn't have a hook landing exactly on the tenth page.

Well, maybe my BA in journalism is prejudicing my viewpoint, but it's not just the editors you have to get past. Now, this is just my opinion, but grabbing a reader/viewer's attention within the first few moments is perhaps the only way to get them to dedicate the time to continue on with a script/story.

I'm not saying it has to be a gigantic hook (as with the first season of Dexter, where his first kill and the revel behind his target is a major grab). But if you don't hook your audience within the first few pages/minutes, you run the risk of them bailing on your story. Look at Stephen King's opening line for his Dark Tower saga...

"The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

It's a hook, an aura of mystery that draws the reader in, that makes them want to read more. It's not some momentous scene, nor some shattering revelation. It's a simple sentence that makes the reader want to know more, want to learn who the characters are, why there is a chase and the motivations for such actions.

I write reviews and commentaries for fun (and, I must admit, for a sense of purpose) and I always try to make my first paragraph draw the reader into the entire review, which are often more than two typed page and often longer than most internet reviews I've seen. And, as I'm starting to write short stories (once again), the idea behind grabbing my audience at the start is never far from my mind.

Yes, you can have a great story that will enthrall readers/viewers if they invest the time to read/watch one's story. But I think you have to give them a reason to invest the time before you can latch them into one's work. And you have to do that early on, or else you run the risk of them moving on to something else.

Again, that's just my opinion. Perhaps my idea of a hook landing is different than the editor's you've dealt with (hell, I'm very pre-MTV, so it's a good chance my writing seems outdated). But the best movies/stories/novels I've encountered all grabbed my interest, in some way, within the first few moments of the tale, thus drawing me into the story. All it has to be is a turn of a phrase, an off-kilter statement (as Lange gave the maid at the end of AHS's pilot) or a simple summery of the actions taking place that makes me want to invest my time on the story.

Again, it's my opinion. And, to be truthful, I don't like many modern movies/novels, so my ideas of a hook might be outdated. But I do think you need a strong opening to draw readers/viewers in, and give them a reason to invest time in your work.

[mundays]

Yeah I do understand your take BM and to be honest I'm being a bit of a dick truth be told. This threads about American Horror Story and I'm using it as an excuse to vent my own very personal frustrations. None of which I'm doing particularly succinctly!

(EDITED THE REST OF THIS POST TO REMOVE A LONG AND RAMBLING LOAD OF RUBBISH THAT COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE OF ANY INTEREST TO HORRORETC FANS! SORRY X)

[bigmac]

Never thought you were being dickish, mundays. In fact, all during work today, I was hoping I didn't come off seeming like an ass. It's tough out there and I hope you're able to find someone willing to support your work sometime soon.

And let all of us know when you do, because I'd love to support your writing, as I'm sure the other members of the board would as well!!!

And keep me posted on your thoughts about AHS. Hulu isn't carrying any more episodes, so I'm interesting to know if you and the other board members think it's worth watching when it comes out on DVD.

[bigmac]

If anyone's interested, episode two just posted on my Hulu queue. Expires 11/16, so you have about a month to catch it online if you missed it on cable.

[monroevilleshopper]

OK-I’m going to jump in here with a more favorable viewpoint…

While the show seems to be style over substance, I have to say, I’m responding to the aesthetic being presented. The characters are not likeable or even relatable; the viewer is very much kept at a distance from the flawed characters and their ugly world. This is, perhaps, revealing something about me, but I'm satisfied to sit back and watch the story unfold with no emotional investment required (or foisted on me through meaningful glances and sappy dialog so often employed in artless attempts to layer in meaning or depth). The dark humor is hitting the spot for me, too.

As the history of the house’s former occupants come to light, I’m finding myself intrigued. I have a sense that the story is crafted to completion by the writers; they aren’t just winging it and we won’t be left hanging. (At least I hope that I’m in good hands here, but I’ve been wrong before –cough cough - Lost).

It would be interesting for the show come back for a second season with a new set of occupants in the house. Maybe the current cast could become part of the history, hence, make appearances as ghosties in the next round.

In general, I think horror on TV is great for the genre, especially in light of the fact that theatrical releases have been limited to lower-risk movies such as sequels and re-makes . AHS lacks the tension and honest to goodness scares of The Walking Dead, but it’s keeping me entertained so far.

[francoamerican]

Oct 22, 2011 20:54:42 GMT -5 monroevilleshopper said:

OK-I’m going to jump in here with a more favorable viewpoint…

While the show seems to be style over substance, I have to say, I’m responding to the aesthetic being presented. The characters are not likeable or even relatable; the viewer is very much kept at a distance from the flawed characters and their ugly world. This is, perhaps, revealing something about me, but I'm satisfied to sit back and watch the story unfold with no emotional investment required (or foisted on me through meaningful glances and sappy dialog so often employed in artless attempts to layer in meaning or depth). The dark humor is hitting the spot for me, too.

As the history of the house’s former occupants come to light, I’m finding myself intrigued. I have a sense that the story is crafted to completion by the writers; they aren’t just winging it and we won’t be left hanging. (At least I hope that I’m in good hands here, but I’ve been wrong before –cough cough - Lost).

It would be interesting for the show come back for a second season with a new set of occupants in the house. Maybe the current cast could become part of the history, hence, make appearances as ghosties in the next round.

In general, I think horror on TV is great for the genre, especially in light of the fact that theatrical releases have been limited to lower-risk movies such as sequels and re-makes . AHS lacks the tension and honest to goodness scares of The Walking Dead, but it’s keeping me entertained so far.

to be to the point, you are in the majority ... most critics love it and heard on horrorphilia's mavens of horror #2 talk about it with raving glory. Good stuff.

[monroevilleshopper]

Oct 23, 2011 20:21:03 GMT -5 francoamerican said:

Oct 22, 2011 20:54:42 GMT -5 monroevilleshopper said:

OK-I’m going to jump in here with a more favorable viewpoint…

While the show seems to be style over substance, I have to say, I’m responding to the aesthetic being presented. The characters are not likeable or even relatable; the viewer is very much kept at a distance from the flawed characters and their ugly world. This is, perhaps, revealing something about me, but I'm satisfied to sit back and watch the story unfold with no emotional investment required (or foisted on me through meaningful glances and sappy dialog so often employed in artless attempts to layer in meaning or depth). The dark humor is hitting the spot for me, too.

As the history of the house’s former occupants come to light, I’m finding myself intrigued. I have a sense that the story is crafted to completion by the writers; they aren’t just winging it and we won’t be left hanging. (At least I hope that I’m in good hands here, but I’ve been wrong before –cough cough - Lost).

It would be interesting for the show come back for a second season with a new set of occupants in the house. Maybe the current cast could become part of the history, hence, make appearances as ghosties in the next round.

In general, I think horror on TV is great for the genre, especially in light of the fact that theatrical releases have been limited to lower-risk movies such as sequels and re-makes . AHS lacks the tension and honest to goodness scares of The Walking Dead, but it’s keeping me entertained so far.

to be to the point, you are in the majority ... most critics love it and heard on horrorphilia's mavens of horror #2 talk about it with raving glory. Good stuff.

I hadn't been reading any positive remarks about AHS, I'm glad to know I'm not alone - I just hate to be contrary, you know?

Thanks for the tip. I downloaded a couple of horrorphilia podcasts since I'll soon be caught up on Horroretc and Dark Discussions. Podcasts keep me from committing violent crimes at work.

[bigmac]

Watched the second episode and is anyone else ticked off that the show lifted the music from directly from Psycho? Yea, we know the person in the scene is a looney, but think of something original, will ya?

That little quibble aside, the basic plot of the episode was interesting, but I've discovered my problem with the show is I just don't give a good damn about the Harmons. And it's the lies all of them are telling each other (or the truth they withhold) that makes me not care about them. It's pretty obvious all this will bite them in the ass at some point, and it will be painfully obvious when it happens.

But the secondary characters and their potential motivations are interesting, though I foresee things getting grayer and murky if the show is renewed for a second season. I expect another Twin Peaks: Season One closing, which makes no sense but keeps things rolling.

I'm at the point where I'll watch it if I have time, but won't be sorry to see it gone.

[Mama Bear]

I am enjoying it so far though I too am more intrigued by the secondary characters, I find whatever is going on with Moira and Constance far more interesting than the Harmons drama. I do hope they have an endgame, there are a lot subplots, I hope in won't get all messy like Lost did.

[ilnino]

whos in the suit?