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Post by Asmodeus on Jun 27, 2012 12:55:08 GMT -5
Ok. It's time to open up this can. Everyone has an opinion about the guy. The horror community seems split on this one. I find people born after say...1986 seem to love the guy and everything he does with regards to movies. People born before then, not so much. That's a generalization of course but still, from personal experience, that's what I've found.
I was born in 1978. I grew up listening to White Zombie so I was already a loyal fan by the time House of 1000 Corpses got released. I immediately started to dislike Zombie after this movie came out. I thought it was so blatantly contrived from TCM that I had a hard time getting through it. I basically wrote him off as a film maker (and as a musician at that point).
A few years later he then released The Devil's Rejects. This movie blew me away. I felt it was much more focused and original that HO1000C. The soundtrack fit the tone and mood perfectly. It was so violent and bleak without going overboard like say, Martyrs. (which I love too but it's very depressing)
A few years after that out comes Halloween. Now I know this one really brought on the hate. I liked it for what it was. A guy that was an obvious fan of the original decided to make a movie explaining why Myers was the way he was. I understand why people hated it because it missed the idea of what a slasher is completely. But I did enjoy it. I've only watched it once and don't really feel the need to view it again any time soon but I felt the excessive hate was unnecessary. Well unnecessary from the pre-1986 people. People after that year seem to live and die by Zombie, like i mentioned earlier.
Next came H2. This movie I despised worse than House of 1000 Corpses. I didnt' get the direction he was going. I hated the humourless brutality of it. Although, I've heard the Directors Cut is worth a watch and I have picked it up since hearing that but I haven't watched it. So I still have strong hate for H2.
Then comes The Haunted World of El-Superbeasto which, let's face it, is a fucking turd. Now i've written off Zombie altogether. While I'm curious about Lords of Salem, I don't have high hopes.
Now what made me even think of Zombie is recently he announced this hockey movie he's going to do. Sounds intriguing and I'm respectful of him moving out of the genre that he's built a film and music career around.
So what i'm getting at is...well...what's your overall opinions of Zombie as a film maker?
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Post by Captain Midnight on Jun 27, 2012 15:12:17 GMT -5
My experience with him is limited. I have Hellbilly Deluxe, becasue everyone under the age of bought that when it came out. I was familiar with White Zombie prior to that, but not a fan. His musical career doesn't mean a whole lot to me either way. The first thing he did that I recall seeing was the peyote sequence in Beavis and Butthead Do AmericaI rather liked that. It reminded me of the Ed Roth's monster hot rod and Rat Fink trading cards I had as a kid. I didn't see House of a Thousand Corpses or The Devil's Rejects. I never had that desire. I thought his Halloween was interesting, especially the first half. The childhood of Michael Myers was certainly worth exploring. That was the only part of the movie that worked for me. I thought it tanked in the second half. His vision of the adult Michael Meyers as some sort of murderous Big Foot with mommy issues didn't get it for me. Zombie's Halloween II was just awful. I have El Superbeasto. I just haven't gotten around to watching it. His best work may have been as a production designer on Pee Wee's PlayHouse ;D
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bigmac
Revolting Revenant
You mean the movie lied!?!?!?
Posts: 1,508
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Post by bigmac on Jun 27, 2012 19:12:07 GMT -5
I haven't like his stuff, though I've yet to see The Devil's Rejects. But I've given the rest of his films a watch and he's a pretty good director. But his abilities as a screenwriter are lacking. His over-reliance on white trash characters and his increasing use of horror icons for cameo appearances (and forcing the characters into his screenplays just so the actors can appear in his film) sink his films for me every time.
I'd like to see him direct someone else's screenplay, and see what he does with that. He's a talented director, but should give up on writing his own films.
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Post by maffy on Jun 28, 2012 6:12:05 GMT -5
It's been a number of years since I've seen any of his films, so this is probably going to be a bit vague...I've seen three of his films. House of 1000 Corpses felt like a horror movie by Quentin Tarantino. A lot of smartass dialogue and postmodernism a go-go. I'd agree with bigmac that screenwriting is not Rob Zombie's strongest area. House of 1000 Corpses was a bit of a mess, he just took 25 years of horror movie watching and threw it all up on the screen. It lacked a cohesive vision, but there was originality there, and some directorial flair, and there was also Sid Haig and Bill Moseley. I remember liking the way the film changed tone half way through, the smartass dialogue fell away and you realised you were actually watching something kinda nasty at heart.
The first time I saw The Devil's Rejects I thought it was appalling, the second time I thought it was some kind of flawed masterpiece. I was expecting House of 1000 Corpses part 2, and it certainly isn't that, I think it kind of threw me on that first viewing. The film is actually very beautiful, and not just in terms of its cinematography. There's a lot more space in Devil's Rejects, room to breathe, it felt more like a film made in the late 70's than the early 21st century. And there's a lot of music in the film, sometimes it's the music that's the most important element of a scene - I guess that would be a problem for some (not for me though). A good word to describe Devil's Rejects would be elegiac. It reminded me of some of Peckinpah's westerns, especially Pat Garret & Billy The Kid and The Wild Bunch. If you haven't seen a Rob Zombie film, this is probably the one to start with. A great cast too. Apart from Sheri Moon, obviously...
Halloween is probably the one I have the least recollection of, but I do remember thinking the background stuff to the character in the first half worked well. To be honest, I think that was what was missing for me in the original. I'd agree with Captain Midnight that it fell apart in the second half though.
I'm still not sure really what my opinion of Zombie is, but he does inject his films with a certain amount of originality, and for that at least I'm grateful to have him around. I think he took a bit of a wrong turn with the Halloween remakes though, and I don't hold out a lot of hope for his new film but who knows...
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Post by junkyard on Jul 9, 2012 4:04:10 GMT -5
I saw the devils rejects first and loved it, saw it in the cinema. A friend kept going on about how amazing house of 1000 corpses was so I just bought it, FULL PRICE and hated it. His Halloweens were okay but I think he missed the point that this all happened in a middle class environment by placing it in the family that he did. I think though he should have changed a few things and made it a stand alone movie and not a remake of halloween. he would not have had to change to much. As far as the music I have been a fan for over 20 years.
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maarow
Ghost in the Graveyard
Posts: 509
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Post by maarow on Jul 9, 2012 17:21:25 GMT -5
I don't have much to say about him as a filmmaker. Strong visual sense, very weak storyteller. I love the "spookshow" nature of his solo albums and wish his movies had that sense of fun imbued into them.
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Post by xtrialbyfirex on Jul 9, 2012 22:17:04 GMT -5
I like him well enough. I think his music is trite but his movies are very relevant artistically, whether they are well regarded or not.
I think H2 might be his strongest film. I love parts of it and hate others.
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maarow
Ghost in the Graveyard
Posts: 509
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Post by maarow on Jul 10, 2012 11:50:40 GMT -5
I like him well enough. I think his music is trite but his movies are very relevant artistically, whether they are well regarded or not. I think H2 might be his strongest film. I love parts of it and hate others. In what way are his movies relevant artistically?
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Post by xtrialbyfirex on Jul 10, 2012 12:20:15 GMT -5
Zombie has a real visual flair that tends to be missing from most horror movies. Also, whether you enjoy it or not, he has a new vision for old tropes, which again, most horror movies lack. He actually took the slasher genre forward, which is probably one of the least creative sub-genres in cinematic history. It's something no one, to my knowledge, has done since Carpenter. (And lets be honest, Carpenter didn't do anything original as much as he borrow quite heavily form Deep Red and Texas Chainsaw Massacre, etc). He added depth and emotion to characters that are that are typically just caricatures there to be torn apart for the joy of the audience. If anyone is interested, someone I know from the deadpit forums did a discussion of H2 for the Rue Morgue podcast: rue-morgue.com/2012/06/rue-morgue-podcast-shloggs-part-two/It's the best discussion I've ever heard on H2, or Rob Zombie, period. Whether or not you like the direction he took the series in is beside the point. He is the most divisive figure making horror movies and to me that makes him very relevant especially considering the genre has few working "masters." Aside from Guillermo Del Toro and James Wan, I'm not sure there is a truly great director working in the horror genre. I'm very interested in his next movie and I think it will probably be a defining moment for Zombie, one way or another. I think he is better off doing original work and not homages or remakes, so we'll see how The Lords of Salem turns out.
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Post by villain612 on Jul 15, 2012 23:46:42 GMT -5
Disclaimer - I was born in 1984.
I love Rob Zombie's music. Was always a big fan of the music from when I was in high school. When he transitioned into films I was really excited. However, after watching them, I honestly don't really dig his film taste at all.
I personally think he might have some potential as a director if someone else were writing his scripts, but the big elephant in the room of EVERY SINGLE FILM HE HAS DONE is that the scripts are always horrible. Of all his films, the characters are terrible in every one of them, which ultimately undermine every film he has done.
I had high hopes for him ever since I saw House of 1000 Corpses in the theaters almost ten years ago but I have always ended up disappointed. The culmination of disappoint was H2 which was the first movie IN MY LIFE that I actually walked out of the theater on. It was that bad.
I concede that he has his own style. Which is better than nothing. But that's honestly not enough to get me back to the theater to watch any other of his film offerings. I've been let down too many times by now. No more.
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Tarman
Creeping Corpse
More Brains !!!
Posts: 33
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Post by Tarman on Aug 5, 2012 4:01:35 GMT -5
I'm a 1984er too I just ordered my tickets for his upcoming UK concert, skweeeeee (that's my happy sound). As for his films my personal favorite is House of a 1000 Corpses , i'd never seen anything like it before, with the crazy cut aways, strange screen splits and the longest slow mo pull back eeeeever (when Otis executes the cop). Its like 1 of his albums put to the screen. I get what he was trying to do with The Devils Rejects but it didn't work for me, watching these crazy characters from House of 1000 Corpse's suddenly being all serious and gritty was strange. He pulled a reverse Tobe Hooper, he made TCM 1 grim and serious, TCM2 silly and campy, Zombie just reversed the order with his films. Then there's Halloween, it is what it is. If he didn't make it someone else would have eventually. Don't know what happened with H2 though, he doesn't get a pass for that 1. I'll still watch the Lords of Salem, they ever gonna release a trailer ?? Also i don't think his wife can act, enough with the wife Rob !!
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bigmac
Revolting Revenant
You mean the movie lied!?!?!?
Posts: 1,508
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Post by bigmac on Aug 5, 2012 23:33:38 GMT -5
Ooops, guess I should have mentioned my age, as this seems to be part of the topic.
I was born in 1961 (yea, I'm old; so what's it to you?), yet I don't HATE Zombie's work. I think his writing is his greatest weakness.
He continues to write characters as the worst hillbilly stereotypes, he adds characters only to fit in cameo appearances, and because of this, he just can't deliver believable characters the audience can empathize with. And he will wander into unrelated territory, as House of 1000 Corpses went from a nice redneck killer nightmare to something out of Hellraiser.
No one can doubt he delivers some visceral impact (Halloween 2 has some horrific scenes without an overabundance of blood and guts, which I comment him for), but he needs someone to edit his scripts, tighten them up and deliver something that will appeal to everyone.
I'm interested in his work. I've got The Devil's Rejects on reserve at my local library and will check out Lords of Salem. But I hope he can overcome his weaknesses, or hire a scriptwriter with his sensibilities without delving into his weaknesses. Once he does that, I think we'll see a classic from him.
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Post by craftfear on Aug 23, 2012 23:53:28 GMT -5
"But I hope he can overcome his weaknesses, or hire a scriptwriter with his sensibilities without delving into his weaknesses. Once he does that, I think we'll see a classic from him. "
I totally agree that having a scriptwriter would do him a lot of good. His visual style is really enjoyable and I think, on that level, he creates really interesting characters (though they start to slide in quality when they open their mouths--I'm looking at you, H1000C). For as pissed as I was that someone was touching Halloween in the first place--the only time I've ever gotten really pissed about news of a re-make--I was really impressed by how he handled it. He really emphasized Mike Meyers as UNSTOPPABLE FORCE.
H2, however, undid all of that for me. Probably #2 on the list of movies that made me feel like I'd wasted my life (second to "Funny People"--fuck you, adam sandler).
Despite that, I think he's a really unique auteur and I'd like to see him collaborate with a better writer. Then again, from what others have said it sounds like my missing piece is the best that he's put out so far--Devil's Rejects is definitely in my top 10-20 films to see next.
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