Episode 261 - Hellraiser Retrospective (part 2)

[kingstownted]

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It's not hands that call us... it is desire.

A few weeks back, we presented our commentary for Clive Barker's Hellraiser, the seminal 80's cult hit that spawned perhaps the most uneven of horror franchises. As promised, this week continues our retrospective examining all 8 sequels in the popular series. We are joined in this endeavour by guest host Tom, freelance writer for Scream Magazine and fan of all things Hellraiser. Courtesy of Tom, we also have extended audio from an interview that he conducted with Pinhead himself - Doug Bradley - offering some insights into the man and the part that made him famous. In part one of our journey towards Leviathan, we discuss the remaining theatrically released Hellraiser films (parts 2-4), and as always there is a surprise or two along the way.

We hope that you enjoy our long gestating Hellraiser retrospective (an oft-requested subject from listeners), and look forward to hearing your thoughts on this series.

As always we welcome your comments: [e-mail]
Voicemail [phone]

[patientzero]

I just got to meet several cast members from the first two Hellraiser films this past weekend, so I'm looking forward to giving this episode a listen.

[xtrialbyfirex]

I just watched HR2 again yesterday and I was really blown away by the second half of the movie, despite how clunky the first half was. It might be the best depiction of hell I've ever seen on film.

Can't wait to hear this show

[cdb]

I've got most of the episode listened to, and I have to say the Hellraise and Hellraiser II also rotate in and out as my favorites. I noticed Ted made a comment about part III, the intermingling of a fine restaurant with the S&M club. It think that was less Barker's fantasy place and more a deliberate co mingling of 'acceptable' vs 'unacceptable' aspects of society and pointing out that they aren't separate. Just like Pinhead in his original form wasn't good or evil, he was just extreme, and he needed the Eliot Spencer portion of his personality to be a whole, but still extreme, being. He goes all Freddy when those aspects of his personality are separated.

And I agree, I think Hellbound has the best presentation of a possible hell in cinema. I didn't know there were comics based on Hellraiser, I'm going to have to look into them. Also, it may be an odd suggestion, but I think if any mainstream series is open to supporting an expanded universe it has to be this one. The way the post Hell on Earth films were handled is a shame, but since they at least leave the mythology vague there's room to expand on it all. Seeing as it started as a novella, it would be interesting to see it keep going in that form too.

I remember a series of books - short story collections - edited by Thomas Monteleone and his wife called Borderlands. The whole premise was horror from an unusual and hopefully until then unexplored angle. There were some memorable tales in those books. It would be interesting if Barker would be willing to take on a similar 'executive producer' mantle and simply give people free reign to contribute to the universe with the only caveat being he gets to 'bless' every entry as canon or not.

As for the possible remake of the original, I'm glad it's a nonstarter. Not because I don't want to see it done, but because I don't want it to be fucked up. I think people would gravitate to the S&M angle and to be blunt it's just not that shocking to most people anymore. I have an idea of how to go about doing it, but I don't want to post it to be honest because I've been toying with the idea of a spec script based on the idea and I'm rereading the Hellbound Heart just to see if my idea has any applicability.

[rterrell24]

Another knock out of the ballpark for the Horror Etc team. Great episode. I need to get through the crappy sequels for the next episode but man they are rough.Can't wait for the Child's Play episode, that makes me so happy. You guys rock,keep it up.

[xtrialbyfirex]

Aside from part 4, none of them are especially awful. Except maybe the last one, I still can't bring myself to watch it ><

[jamtomorrow]

Bloody brilliant bit of podcasting, that.
I’ve got a soft spot for Hellraiser because I too am a Liverpudlian, and I remember well the buzz that accompanied the release of the original movie in the city. However, the series itself has never done that much for me, and it’s therefore a testimony to the podcast that I enjoyed listening to the discussion just as much as I did.
Can I also say what a fecking awesome interviewer Ted is? He managed the contributions with aplomb, had authority without being overbearing and kept discussion from getting bogged down whilst allowing room to explore interesting tangents. There are media professionals who could learn a thing or two from this, let alone other podcasters. The edited-in bits of interview with Bradley were used to great effect as well.
Interesting thought: when Ted asked Tom (paraphrase): “What’s the deal with this Leviathan being?”, Tom answered (as would most people !) that he didn’t really know; but he did say something interesting regarding Leviathan representing order and the flesh being chaos.
Is this a reference to the book Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes? For those who don’t know, Hobbes’ Leviathan is a C17th treatise on political authority. What does it say? Well, there is the line of thinking (exemplified by philosophers like Locke and Rousseau, and expressed in the Romantic movement in literature and the arts) that people are basically born good, and that it’s society that bends them out of shape and teaches them to lie and cheat do others down in order to prosper. Leviathan takes the opposite viewpoint; that humans are basically selfish and savage, and that strong social and political authoritarian structures are needed to keep them in check and to force them to work together for the collective good (neatly summed up by the Latin phrase “homo homini lupus”; trans: “man is a wolf to man”). If so, that’s quite a profound idea for a seriously flawed film – are the cenobites here to bring order to our fragmented world?
Anyway, fantastic job. I guess you don’t get to 261 episodes without learning a thing or two.

[Stuart]

One of your best episodes guys. The Doug Bradley snippets were a real treat (thanks Tom). I watched/re-watched the whole franchise myself a while back. Here’s my take on the first four:

HR1 is one of my all-time favourite movies and is still terrific all these years later. HR2 Hellbound: A wild ride. Disagree about Sam Neill; Ken Cranham is a great British actor who fitted the Channard role perfectly. HR3 Hell On Earth: Loved this when it came out. On re-watch all these years later I feel it doesn’t work so well. The Freddy-esque Pinhead shtick is cheesy as hell and Ted is spot on about the insta-mix cenobites. HR4 Bloodline: Disliked this when I first saw it because of the space element. On rewatch, I found that I quite enjoyed it, especially the box origins bit. I’ve just grabbed the fan edit with the workprint scenes. Must get around to watching it.

[cdb]

Aug 26, 2012 19:15:01 GMT -5 jamtomorrow said:

Is this a reference to the book Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes?

I don't think so. I think it's just a reference to Leviathan in the Bible, and subsequent references which carry all kinds of connotations. I think it's just the name of this particular demon from Christian mythology, repurposed here because of the various overtones it carries. If anything I think the main thrust is duality. Flesh vs spirit, pleasure vs pain, chaos vs order, etc.