Episode 282 - The Horror Hall of Fame

[kingstownted]

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Welcome to the groundbreaking ceremony of the Horroretc Hall of Fame. In classic fashion, we had a great longform debate over history's greatest contributors to the horror genre to hash out the inaugural class and tried to group the inductee candidates that warrant recognition. The ultimate purpose of the discussion was to determine the four faces that deserve to be chiseled into the Mount Rushmore of horror.

As things progressed we worked out several determining factors including career achievement, singular touchstone contributions, the impact of certain works, influence upon the genre, etc. To assist with the decision making we make several analogies to the design and template of how sports hall of fames work.

In the end we simply enjoyed celebrating the iconic names and faces of horror and honour the works that have brought us all so much enjoyment as fans. We hope you enjoy the discussion as well - perhaps you may agree with our comments, surely there was a lot of contention, but most of all we hope you share your opinions and comments on who ultimately deserves to be up on our hypothetical Mount Rushmore (you may be surprised at our results). The prize offer thrown out to reward the best art representation of our final four was real and we encourage submissions.

Things wrap up with thoughts on Django Unchained (spoiler - it was fantastic).

As always we welcome your comments: [e-mail]
Voicemail [phone]

[sidach]

My mount rushmore would be decided by those vital to the survival and thriving of the movie genre we love. Therefore, representing universal horror James Whale and Boris Karloff (as the monster) would be my first two picks as they are the face and brains behind what pushed the horror genre as we understand it into the mainstream. Peter Cushing would be choice three as Hammer truly revolutionised and revitalised what was a lagging industry trading on the whole on sequels of the early classics. Cushing gets the hammer spot because; he stayed loyal to the genre, on a mount rushmore structure he is a recognisable face of hammer as opposed to fisher and finally because of the great horror actors of his time (himself, lee and price) he was by far the strongest character actor, less reliant on caricature in his films. The final spot would be Romero's, he is not just the inventor of the zombie genre, but if you look at the horror movie today he really is the father of modern horror (although it is a shame there hasn't been much further progress since 68). So for what its worth those are my four: Whale, Karloff, Cushing, Romero. Must admit it is very hard though, and this focus is greatly Western-centric focusing on the culture in the US and UK.
Simon.

[ilnino]

I tell you what! Im definitely gona do you guys a "Horror Mount Rushmore"
Its just a pity Ive a few other bits and pieces Ive promised to do for people that I really need to get done first.

[markrudolph]

New to the forum, but wanted to share a piece I did based on Tony and Ted's discussion of the Mount Rushmore of horror. I'm an illustrator by trade, who does a lot of caricature work, so this was quite a bit of fun to draw a bunch of old dudes.
cvcomics.com/horrormount.jpg

[ilnino]

hey, thats awesome. nice work.

[nicolecushing]

Interesting episode...good to see yet another Ted n' Tony pairing (y'all are the Lennon & McCartney of horror podcasting, you know that, right?) I laughed out loud at Tony's Christopher Lee impersonation.

One general observation...If we're really comparing this to a sports Hall of Fame, then I think we should have a rule that says only professionals who have been retired for some length of time should be allowed. (In baseball, that's five years, right?)

I always like this approach because it helps us to avoid rushing to a quick, emotional judgement about a player and allows cooler heads to prevail.

So, I would recommend we only allow dead (or otherwise retired) horror pros into this imaginary "Hall of Fame".

Now...

Because I'm a book geek, I have to give my two cents on the literary aspect of the Hall of Fame & Mt. Rushmore...

1. If loyalty to the genre is one of the criteria, then Stephen King is definitely disqualified. He's repeatedly tried, over a number of years, to shed his identity as a horror author so he can be accepted in mainstream literary circles. (And in the event you don't believe me, I present "Exhibit A"...a documentary film clip of King denying his status as a horror author. Proceed to the 2:27 point in this Youtube video -- a 1999 BBC documentary. www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh6nHI-DKhQ )

2. On the matter of Robert Bloch...I'm not a fan of Bloch's work, but I think he merits greater attention than what he was given here. Bloch is important to the genre not only because of Psycho, but because of his other novels. He was also a prolific contributor of short stories to old pulp magazines like Weird Tales.

Bloch is also important as a historical figure in the genre. As a teenager, he maintained a correspondence with H.P. Lovecraft. Lovecraft encouraged Bloch to write, and HPL supposedly even based one of his characters "Robert Blake", I think, on Bloch.

Years later, authors like Jack Ketchum and W.H. Pugmire had something of the same relationship with Bloch that Bloch had with Lovecraft. Bloch befriended Ketchum and was a pen pal to Pugmire.

3. I was also a little disappointed to hear Tony refer to Poe as the innovator of visceral, violent horror (implying a lack of subtlety a la M.R. James). Yes, "The Tell-Tale Heart" has a post-mortem dismemberment by ax in it...BUT there's so much more to Poe than "The Tell-Tale Heart"...if you enjoy subtlety and atmosphere, check out some of the stories like "William Wilson", "Ms. Found in a Bottle", and even the better-known "The Masque of the Red Death".

By the way, if Tony digs M.R. James he should also check out Algernon Blackwood...a man who wrote subtle, eerie "Lovecraftian" horror years before Lovecraft ever picked up a pen! (He also wrote some nice ghost stories. I think Tony might particularly dig "The Little Beggar" and "The Tradition").

Now, onto some of my thoughts on the film aspects of the horror hall of fame...

1. I don't think Romero belongs there (well, mayyyybe in the hall of fame, but definitely not Mt. Rushmore). I think the peaks and valleys of Romero's career demonstrate that he's not an auteur and really not the driving force behind a lot of his films. Based on interviews, Romero seems to have this laid-back, collaborative style. Sometimes (like in NOTLD, Creepshow, and Martin) it works for him. But more often than not, it comes back to haunt him. Romero is only as strong as the group he collaborates with.

Which brings me to...

2. I think Duane Jones belongs in the horror hall of fame. Think about it...the most important actor in...arguably...the most important film in horror history. Sure, this is a case of him only having one role...but what a role. It is, arguably, an actor and a role that changed horror cinema forever.

Romero gets farrrrr more credit for NOTLD than he deserves. Can you imagine NOTLD with any other Romero male lead in that role? (John Amplas as Ben??? Wouldn't work. He's too neurotic. Joseph Pilato as Ben??? Too cheesy. Ken Foree as Ben? Not enough intensity)

What say you, gents?

[panic]

Jan 10, 2013 16:06:17 GMT -5 markrudolph said:

New to the forum, but wanted to share a piece I did based on Tony and Ted's discussion of the Mount Rushmore of horror. I'm an illustrator by trade, who does a lot of caricature work, so this was quite a bit of fun to draw a bunch of old dudes.
cvcomics.com/horrormount.jpg

Nice work!

[Phibes]

Jan 10, 2013 16:06:17 GMT -5 markrudolph said:

New to the forum, but wanted to share a piece I did based on Tony and Ted's discussion of the Mount Rushmore of horror. I'm an illustrator by trade, who does a lot of caricature work, so this was quite a bit of fun to draw a bunch of old dudes.
cvcomics.com/horrormount.jpg

That's fantastic!

[drphibes]

Jan 10, 2013 16:06:17 GMT -5 markrudolph said:

New to the forum, but wanted to share a piece I did based on Tony and Ted's discussion of the Mount Rushmore of horror. I'm an illustrator by trade, who does a lot of caricature work, so this was quite a bit of fun to draw a bunch of old dudes.
cvcomics.com/horrormount.jpg

Awesome, love it. What a talent!

[cdb]

I don't necessarily disagree with the first three on Mount Rushmore since I think you could make arguments as strong, but not stronger, for others, but the Romero one is too arguable for me. I think Lovecraft deserves it over him. Lovecraft and his work touches almost everything in modern horror. I think even Stephen King noted in Danse Macabre that it's next to impossible to go somewhere in the genre that he hasn't already gone. He definitely has a writing style you need to adjust to if you're to enjoy it, but the guy was among the first, if not the first to bend the genre and is pretty much the reason why Tony and Ted were debating the scifi/horror line. He broke it and essentially invented the mixed genre in which films like The Thing and Alien reside.

And further, he really was a mentor and 'progenitor' of sorts for many authors, even after his death. The previously mentioned Robert Bloch was one, as was Robert E. Howard who I believe communicated with HPL while he was still alive. Brian Lumley, Stephen King, Ramsey Campbell, Joe Lansdale, Neil Gaiman, and tons of other authors would all name him as a major influence. In terms of impact it's hard to match Lovecraft. It's also arguable that the founding of Arkham House to get his work into print in a more robust form was the push that got the ball rolling to the modern day when horror, fantasy, and scifi authors get to see their works released in hardcover editions alongside more 'literary' authors.

[dv909]

Great picture Mark!

This episode was a lot of fun. If I may add my two cents, when I look at Mt. Rushmore I see presidents only. So that's the approach I took in coming up with my own, that being 'characters' only. They would be Frankenstein's monster, Demonic Regan from The Exorcist, Michael Meyers, and Jason Voorhees. I was gonna do a photoshop of it but I really don't have the time. Sorry.

And for the Hall of Fame, I would have the original Halloween poster at the entrance. That image impresses me to this day.

[Stuart]

Really interesting show. I didn’t agree with your final four (Carpenter? Really?) but that’s neither here nor there. It’s an interesting discussion that gets us all thinking about the key contributors to the genre. Personally, for an inaugural selection I would have gone for people who provided the early foundations on which the genre is built and then installed the likes of VP, King and Carpenter later on down the line as the “next generation”.

And Tony? That Stephen King story about the guy on the autopsy table has been filmed. It was in the Nightmares and Dreamscapes series and featured John-Boy Walton on the slab.

[xtrialbyfirex]

I got to say I really enjoyed Django Unchained. If I had any major criticisms it would be that it felt like victory lap for Inglorious Basterds, (not that they didn't all deserve one).

As far as the 3 hour run time, I barely even noticed. I was kind of sad it was finished at the end b/c I wanted more. Thankfully we'll get an extended edition on dvd from what I'm hearing.

Sam Jackson was really outstanding in this movie, and I got to think that this was his best performance in years. Does anybody get more from their actors than Tarantino?

Also, did anybody notice Kevin Costner's cameo? I didn't realize who it was until I read the cast list. Pretty fucking awesome!

[dfp123]

Here is an image I have created of the Mount Rushmore Horror Hall of Fame. Hope you like it.
www.upbeatunique.com/horroretc/mtRush_horroretc.jpg

Nice job on your artwork Mark.

[jmodlinc]

It is in the end entirely subjective, but many would consider films like "Cat People" and "The Seventh Victim" to be just as much horror films as they are "psychological or supernatural thrillers," Tony.

Also, again, James Wan had nothing to do with "Sinister," Anthony! That is a Scott Derrickson-directed joint.