ilnino
Disembodied Voice
Posts: 473
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Post by ilnino on Jul 6, 2012 17:10:29 GMT -5
I left this on the facebook for Ted in relation to his Irish comment Okay just got to the part of the podcast this refers to (the what is wrong with calling irish people irish comment). The conversation referred to Northern Ireland and not Ireland . In Northern Ireland just over half the community do not consider them selves Irish and a much much smaller but very loud part of this community would be offended at being called Irish. There is a even smaller part of this community that would hurt you for calling them Irish (I grew up with some of them), in fact many many people have been murdered due to how people see themselves and others in this country. In northern Ireland you don't call someone Irish without knowing their political views first, you also do not call someone British without knowing the same. Hopefully in the not to distant future this will change but I cannot see it in the near future. As I said before I see myself as Northern Irish, not Irish and not British (believe it or not that statement about not seeing myself as British could get me a slappin where i am from). Hope this clears that conversation up for you This all but sums up what I came on here to say... I am more than happy to be considered Irish and call myself that but living here I know just how complex that shit is... Its political/religious and I dont expect you guys from canada to know (or really care)so dont worry about it.. though im willing to still be friendly to ya junkyard lol
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Post by johnone on Jul 7, 2012 0:41:21 GMT -5
Again Junkyard read Voodoo Histories, I was talking about the way conspiracies entwine everything and Kelly's suicide at the time was somehow being tied up to a "Shadowy" government plot that included other deaths including the "Cover up" of the sinking of the Belgrano during the Falklands War? I would have gone into it more but the message would have been an hour long...(the phone company would have loved that.) As for Scott...he might have been saying that it wasn't a prequel but he didn't stop Fox from dropping hints for a year that it was....besides my attitude is this...if it isn't a prequel than why set it in the same Universe...why not create a new universe to tell your story in ? And why go round saying it's not a prequel but then in Interviews (such as with the bbc) say Prometheus is a three film arc that leads to Alien. Well if a film leads into another film doesn't that make it a prequel? Still it could have been worse ...Scott a week after the film was asked why the engineers wanted to destroy us all....and Scott actually is reported to have said that at one point the writers considered explaining that 2000 years ago an engineer came to earth and was crucified by the Romans........so let us be lucky they didn't go with the old "Jesus was a spaceman trope" because quite frankly the phone would have melted.
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Post by junkyard on Jul 7, 2012 16:18:19 GMT -5
Ilnino I honestly have no problem with you seeing yourself as Irish, I honestly don't care if someone see themselves as British or Irish. I would care if you thought murdering people was justified for your beliefs though (I know you don't). I do not want to die because someone does not like the religion I was born into (one parent Protestant one Catholic). Anyway us people who think of themselves as Northern irish are the best as we do not overly align ourselves to either country :-P.
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Post by junkyard on Jul 7, 2012 16:34:31 GMT -5
johnone that's fair enough about David Kelly and the falklands war and other deaths (nothing to do with these two stories were reported on the bbc news and that is where I got my information) but my point is there are still issues with his death that the government have refused to have an inquest into so i do not think that ANYONE can say there was no conspiracy here because you cannot know either way and don't try to tell me you are more intelligent than several doctors who were involved with the case. I think i will believe what my memories of what was reported at the time and also the BBC news site over a book that is bound to be slanted towards what the author is selling. Sorry.
I do not think I have ever believed a conspiracy theory in my life by the way (although I really liked the movie), the David Kelly stuff in relation to blood loss, lack of blood at the scene, cut depths, Kelly not having access to these drugs that is said he over dosed on and the fact that his religion has issues with suicide (this last point is the smallest for me as Catholics commit suicide all the time and that is a big no no) does need to be answered though.
Promethus, well to answer your question 3 story arc that sets up Alien so does this not make it a prequel? Hate to tell you that no it does not. It makes the 3 story arc a prequel to Alien but not this movie as the stand alone entity that it is at the moment. I have read the interview where he said they were think of the Christ angle and have to agree I am glad they did not but I am a bit worried about the extended cut which will flesh out the characters to where Scott wanted them will drop hints about this. I have also said why he would set it n the alien world, he would not get funding for this movie if he did not. "I want to spend a fortune on an aliens are our creator movie" yeah I can see the studios throwing money at this idea in the current market.
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ilnino
Disembodied Voice
Posts: 473
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Post by ilnino on Jul 7, 2012 17:48:11 GMT -5
Ilnino I honestly have no problem with you seeing yourself as Irish, I honestly don't care if someone see themselves as British or Irish. I would care if you thought murdering people was justified for your beliefs though (I know you don't). I do not want to die because someone does not like the religion I was born into (one parent Protestant one Catholic). Anyway us people who think of themselves as Northern irish are the best as we do not overly align ourselves to either country :-P. To be fair I take the Irish tag so I feel less guilty about my over drinking
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Post by kingstownted on Jul 7, 2012 17:53:35 GMT -5
Promethus, well to answer your question 3 story arc that sets up Alien so does this not make it a prequel? Hate to tell you that no it does not. It makes the 3 story arc a prequel to Alien but not this movie as the stand alone entity that it is at the moment. This is semantics. It is set in the same universe, featuring characters from the previously established mythology, is set prior to the events of Alien, features the evolution of the face hugger into a proto-xenomorph. In what way is this not a prequel (at least as I interpret the term).
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Post by junkyard on Jul 7, 2012 18:21:09 GMT -5
"features the evolution of the face hugger into a proto-xenomorph" no it does not. There is an image of this creature before this creature appears so it has not evolved in this movie. These creatures already exist. What characters are in Alien that appear in Prometheus?
A prequel has to have a direct link to the movies that follow. Explain to me the DIRECT link. If you can supply this link then I will happily change my mind. I have seen it twice and cannot find this link. No characters appear in both movies, The aliens already exist we just see the birth of one that is on another ship on another moon than Alien, the story does not tie into Alien so PLEASE show me the link.
I have already stated why I think it was set in the same universe AND being set in the same universe in no way makes it a prequel
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Post by junkyard on Jul 7, 2012 18:21:37 GMT -5
ilnino lol
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Post by junkyard on Jul 7, 2012 18:27:15 GMT -5
And if the director of both movies says it is not a prequel then I think I will believe him especially since he has said this from way before the movie was released
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Post by bloodblack on Jul 8, 2012 4:06:36 GMT -5
I have already stated why I think it was set in the same universe AND being set in the same universe in no way makes it a prequel Yes it does. A story that takes place in the same universe at an earlier time but is released/published after a previously told story is the definition of a prequel. That is a sufficient condition - there are additional conditions that you may feel are necessary but the dictionary does not require them. I had always assumed that Scott's denial was because his intent was to make it primarily high concept (ha!) SF rather than horror in SciFi costumes. Well, that was his intent.
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Post by bloodblack on Jul 8, 2012 4:15:49 GMT -5
Oh, and 'Irish' is the correct label that the rest of the world should use. (Just as 'eskimo' is more correct for a stranger than the more-often-offensive 'Inuit'. If you don't have intimate knowledge (and should not have intimate knowledge) then just use the generic.)
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Post by junkyard on Jul 8, 2012 5:36:06 GMT -5
Bloodblack no offence but the conversation with Ted was in relation to coming to Belfast. No matter what your view is you do not go around Belfast and refer to every one as Irish. If you have no knowledge of living in this country please shut the fuck up as stupid advice like this could get someone hurt or worse. I am starting to get annoyed about this now. I was punched in the head once for having Catholic friends. I saw a girl being beat up by a group of girls for having a protestant boyfriend. So keep your opinion to yourself on this matter.
Also I would hate to tell you if you want to be technical the correct term for the majority of people from Northern Ireland is not Irish it is British as this is what the passport most people from Northern Ireland hold. We are part of the united kingdom not the Republic of Ireland who have Irish passports (although we can hold an Irish passport which is one of the reasons I see myself as Northern Irish not British or Irish). People in Northern Ireland see themselves in one of three ways Irish, British or Northern Irish and that is where a lot of our problems come from.
As I stated to Ilnino earlier I do not care what way people from my country see themselves as or even if they want us to be part of Ireland. The only issue I have with the views that people hold in this country is when it leads to violence and murder. Change needs to come through a political process not violence.
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Post by junkyard on Jul 8, 2012 5:46:27 GMT -5
At Dictionary.com there are two defintions of Prequel
1 literary, dramatic, or filmic work that prefigures a later work, as by portraying the same characters at a younger age.
No characters appear in both movie, not human, alien or space jockey.
2 a film or book about an earlier stage of a story or a character's life, released because the later part of it has already been successful
How does the story from promethus continue in Alien? It doesn't that's how.
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Post by junkyard on Jul 8, 2012 6:00:05 GMT -5
The reason I am getting annoyed with this Northern Irish crap is because I come on this forum to talk about Horror Movies and have discussions like the Prometheus one and not to defend friendly advise given to someone while watching a movie. Way to go Ted, think I might give the movies a miss tonight.
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Post by kingstownted on Jul 8, 2012 6:01:41 GMT -5
se·man·tics (s-mntks) n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form: We're basically agreed; let's not quibble over semantics.Really not sure why this is such an argument (prequel or not). Who the fuck cares to be perfectly honest. I may not go to Ireland after all - if one off word gets you punched in the face.
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